Its easy to see if a company is verging on bankruptcy. Your correct, there could be things we don’t know. What we DO know though is that havelock has been slowly dieing as an exchange for a few years now, plus every asset that lists there has a decent chance of the price crashing or the asset itself going “bankrupt”.
Them being around for a long time doesn’t mean anything for their future survival. If anything the deeper they get in the hole the sooner the end will come. And they have been losing money, that’s a fact:
So who’s speculating here?
Edi: I guess I should mention that the screenshot above is from HIF quarterly report https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php
You know what I want to know? How are all these sites come up with such massive operating costs. Not just Havelock there is other sites, communities, coins etc that do not only have insane monthly overheads for servers etc but also pretty high retainers for team members etc.
No wonder a good part of them goes belly up, 109 BTC operating cost? GH would go belly up as too.
What a lot of Entrepreneurs (or those who want to be one) don’t understand is that you don’t launch a company and then put everyone on a nice wage. That’s not how a start-up works and it’s the death of most of them. If everyone on that team owns equity in that company then they should be happy if they get a bonus after the first 6 months but LOL at wages, expense reports and benefits in the first 6-12 months.
That’s ~$30k per quarter, the cost of one, maybe 1.5 reasonably skilled tech person in the US. They claim to be in Panama though, not sure if that’s their physical location or just offshore registration. I get what you’re saying about startups but I can also see how you can easily hit 100 BTC per quarter even without indoor pools and free lunch for employees.
If I were to bet, I’d say that it’s BitFury.
Anyway, I’m of the opinion that $0.55/GHS is too high and i won’t Break Even in 1 yr…because difficulty increases may go exponential again once Bitcoin Bros, KNc and others bring more efficient rigs online.
It maybe an ok short term investment like Ryan says…then dump it on the open market before the price tanks. I’m no good at timing so i’ll pass on that idea too.
$30k on what? Hosting and maintaining ONE website?
I agree. If the IPO goes through then DIRECT could be a good buy on the short run. Really depends on the points you’ve raised and BTC’s evaluation after or around the halving.
Yeah well… when you put it that way… you don’t need “word’s best development teams” for that I guess.
Yeah I dunno the amount just amazes me for what Havelock is. Seeing the breakdown of those overheads would be nice. Hmm Q4 2014 report is only available to fund holders and it’s 2015 anyway and the HIFQuarterly Results 3Q2014.pdf (294.2 KB) report doesn’t break down any numbers either. Pretty much just states revenue, expense and loss but doesn’t say how such a massive loss was accumulated.
Anyway, going by the quarterly reports of 2014 Havelock has been operating at a loss all along. Ouch.
You can buy 1 HIF for a few satoshis and get access to the latest report
But it doesn’t break the numbers down so don’t bother.
Also adds some incentive to actually make things work. When someone is collecting a salary they tend to check out since their compensation is the same regardless of level of effort
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/80024 is a good article. I’d recommend the site in general
You are. While it isn’t speculation to say that part of the HIF investment lost BTC in their 4th quarter, it is speculation to say that Havelock Investments is likely to go bankrupt soon. HavelockIvenestments.com is part of a larger company, “The Panama Fund”. That is something we don’t really know much about. So filling in the blanks and drawing up a timeline to bankruptcy is speculation. We don’t know what plans the owners of Havelock Investments have for it or what games they might be playing with their finances. Additionally what risk there would be to customer funds is unknown. However a honest business would allow people to withdraw their funds before closing the doors. It also wouldn’t be co-mingling peoples funds with company funds like MtGox likely did.
I think the warning is fair, but you should realize that you are deep into speculative territory.
EDIT: I think the discussion about what are in those operating costs is on the mark. We just don’t know, but it could easily include someone’s salary. (Just speculating here.)
I guess I don’t know what speculation means then. There are facts showing operating losses. If there is a rich parent company there is no reassurance from them and no explanation as to why they would be subsidizing those losses. To assume so would seem to be pure speculation.
To assume that a company may go bankrupt after not being able to stay profitable and not being able to grow for a couple of years is not speculation, it’s called due diligence when giving your money to strangers.
Havelock used to experience slow withdrawals in the past. I would bet my money on then being able to handle a bank run, therefore my warning.
To speculate is to form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence.
As for due diligence, I agree you are attempting that. You just don’t have access to the information really needed and you are filling the blanks with speculation. That doesn’t mean you aren’t correct.
Personally I have never ran into or heard of withdraw issues with HavelockInvestments.com, however there have been periods of time when accounts couldn’t be accessed. Normally brief but one did go on for weeks when the site was down for some kind of undefined security reasons. I guess that could be considered withdraw issues. I haven’t used Havelock much since I sold my AMHash right before it went under, which was only luck as I was trading between AMHash and B.MINE, so it is possible I have just missed the withdraw issues. In general I never like to leave funds setting at an unregulated private exchange.
There used to be a lot more listings at HavlockInvestments.com, but most of them were pretty awful.
I think DIRECT is too expensive for one year. It might be okay because you can trade it, but the value seems likely to decline faster than the price. It is really betting on flat to declining difficulty for a year. I think that is why the IPO will fail. There are plenty of people with 10’s or 100’s of BTC that move on a deal when it is good enough. Also 10 days is a pretty short period of time, not that it would make a difference in this case.
I’d say that their own quarterly reports are pretty firm evidence but I feel we’re splitting hairs now. I know I won’t convince you nor is it my goal. I’m just saying that the risk is high, you’re downplaying it, we’ve been there before haven’t we
You won’t convince me because I have worked in multiple small companies and don’t have a lot of faith in what is in those types of reports. Besides that isn’t a report for the company, it is a report for an investment in their company. All kinds of possible games could be going on. It isn’t in their best interest to actually pay dividends.
Still there is a good chance you are correct and that HavelockInvestments.com will be shut down.
Now if we could only get a real open asset exchange. No offense to the guys about the ghxchange, its a great job done and to do, but we could use a site like havelock to embrace open assets/colored coins in any variety and give people a place to buy/sell with a bit more haste. IE, You “deposit” the assets you want to sell to an address controlled by you and the exchange, you still receive dividends to this address that you can withdraw at will, but this would allow people to put up a block of 500GHX for sale and let people eat into it rather than having to take the whole listing. It would also allow for selling into the market rather than using limit orders only.
Well go and write one. Or use this one.
The idea behind GHxchange is not to be a traditional exchange but a SAFE exchange NO hacking. Can any exchange guarantee that? Nope and for that matter I would not want my assets stored at an exchange if if it existed.